http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010/10/rfk-outing
Excellent piece of investigatory journalism-- very important article
Excellent piece of investigatory journalism-- very important article
jamesfetzer.blogspot.com
about a week ago · · · Share ·
- You and Tom Hanford like this.
Andy Colvin It could also be that the three CIA agents sometimes posed as Bulova executives.
March 10 at 7:16am · · 1 personLoading...
David Wayne great point, Andy, and one that reference is made to toward end of article: "if Shane is right, then logic requires that we conclude that Campbell and Roman are one and the same, where his life as a Bulova Watch Company executive was his cover, where even he (page 470) acknowledges that that may have been the case."
March 10 at 7:23am · · 1 personLoading...
Steven DuffyI watching this one with caution, and following it some forums...simply because, in Shane O'sullivans book, he postulated this theory of the three CIA agents, only to retract it later when evidence was proving troublesome. As an excellent w...riter/researcher, he admitted he was probably wrong, and stepped up to that. I'm awaiting Lisa Pease's book, she seems by far to be one of the most dogged and knowledgeable on the RFK case...Either way...them not actually being there doesn't mean their greasy fingers weren't...Morales boasted about it.and he was capable of anything....See More
March 10 at 1:11pm ·
Steven Duffy thanks for the link, David..and welcome Andy..I sent you a Pm ages ago, but I love your work....There is much in them that I've noted to read up on...lots of great leads...
March 10 at 1:14pm ·
Andy Colvin Clearly Fetzer has made a cogent argument and I agree with him. The fact that someone else might try to use a cover (Bulova) to confuse the issue is to be expected. I personally could not get through the Pease assassination book at all. Someone should come up with a word for those types of books. They give the impression of something important but, when it comes down to it, they simply confuse the issue. They do not move in the direction of a real answer or stance that can be debated.
March 10 at 1:18pm ·
Andrea SkolnikI have always respected Lisa Pease and look forward to her book as well. I was looking for that online reference to Shane's retraction a while ago to post on another thread and could not find it. I am getting a new printer /scanner this ...week so hopefully I can start scanning pages of my books to post as reference. The value of the way Lisa writes is in the connections she makes and verification of sources for those connections. It does not confuse the issue at all far from it. I use her book and page as a constant source of names and with the internet follow up is fairly simple and at the tip of my OWN fingers. 'Debate" confuses the issue We have been debating for 50 years and all those debates are stored online as well all that has ever done is allow 100 opinions arguing in the room and provide cannon fodder and trolling access for paid lone nutters and slaps on the back for limited research and plays right into the CIA memo presenting critics as self serving. At this point with regard to this case debate is not fruitful in my opinion..there is NOTHING new unless Morley manages to get the Joannides files or the Burkley files can be accessed which I sincerely doubt will happen and there are many released files that would benefit from being aanalyzed and organized in a way that connections and patterns and real evidence can be gleaned from them. ... If anyone wants to debate this Go take apart Bugliosi's book that is about to be thrust into the lexicon of the big lie...ooo yeah No one wants to do that it would get in the way of the parlor game. Stop debating each other over the proven facts and start debating what Bugliosi is misrepresenting as fact. ...Just an ideaSee More
March 10 at 5:02pm ·
Andy Colvin Yes, I suppose some points were made in that book, but they were points that didn't seem to add up to much of a greater whole. Having read so much on the subject prior, I wasn't getting much out of the minor variations - questioning details without an over-arching theme to channel them into. As you mentioned, the book makes you want to "respect" it, with its length and girth, but when it really came down to it, it just seemed a bit long-winded.
March 10 at 5:51pm ·
Steven Duffy Well, It was a book of essays...A full length book will give her plenty of room to present everything. At the moment, I'm glad of essay's...lol...I have to reread and note so many books I've already read...
March 10 at 6:12pm ·
Andrea SkolnikIt was also not just her writing it was a collection of the material from different writers presented from the original Probe and it is designed as an introduction to the political assassinations of the 60s and their relationship to current... events it was not meant to be just a JFK book. It addresses' the MLK , RFK and Malcolm X cases as well to hold all that information she would have needed 10 books. What it did do is gather the recent information and give the reader a new direction to go in. For what it is designed as it is an essential part of any library. I do not have to like any writers style to discern the important information for myself, Joan Mellon's writing is hard for me to follow but her book is essential to understand Garrisons case when added to the rest.See More
March 10 at 8:51pm · · 1 personLoading...
Andrea SkolnikAnd in my opinion NO ONE has addressed the connections of the CIA to this case in detail as much as Lisa and her web page or encouraged new generations to continue to read the original testimony which is how the original critics figured thi...s all out years ago. What her work continues to do is connect the testimony and known facts of the case to the newly released documents that came after it and THAT will stand up in any court of law. A theme is defined as a subject of discourse, discussion, meditation, or composition~ This case has had more than enough variations in over arching themes at this point it might be valuable to gather all of those into a cohesive whole and actually get somewhere. A theme is also a short, informal essay...so I would say over all she passed.See More
March 10 at 9:01pm ·
Andy Colvin Pease's stuff online about the RFK bullets is great. I got a little behind on some of this due to my divorce. I am wondering if anyone remembers the source who said that "Sirhan was flown back east, over Lake Michigan" in the weeks prior to the assassination. I have this crazy theory that Ferrie moved his hit team to the Ohio Valley where Manson was from, and that that area held the training camp for all the assassinations.
March 11 at 4:03am ·
Andy Colvin Ferrie was from Ohio, too, and Sirhan had the KY bluegrass connections. Manson and Sirhan could have been brought together in 1967 for programming. That is when Manson's "uncle" was brutally murdered in Ceredo-Kenova, WV. The main industry there is oil, Marathon Oil and Solvay (Pope John Paul's company). Manson's sending two of his girls to shoot Ford indicates a Rockefeller source for the assassinations. And I still have this sense that there is some connection between Manson and Dubya.
March 11 at 4:13am ·
Andy Colvin One could argue that post-Appalachin, Carbo was working for the Rockefellers. The location of that bust was within 5 minutes of John D.'s home in Owego. As Valentine argues, great efforts were made after that to bring the Mob, FBI, and CIA into line with the Army/Navy.
March 11 at 5:30am ·
Ted Rubinstein There was a connection (Manson and Carbo) Don't get carried away by propinquity. I would suggest Barbara's estate and Apalachin had no connection to the Rockefellers.
March 11 at 5:34am ·
Andy Colvin As Emanuel Josephson quoted in one of his books, there was some sort of feud going on between the Kennedys and the Rockefellers. I think it had something to do with their joint ownership of a hotel, perhaps the Waldorf-Astoria. The Secret Service noticeably beefed up their coverage of JFK when he was in NYC during this juncture.
March 11 at 7:03am ·
Andy Colvin There are definitely links between the Bushes and Rockefellers, particularly with Buckeye Steel in Ohio, where Frank Rockefeller took over for Prescott when he stepped down. I call this nexus the "Bushefellers."
March 11 at 7:26am ·
Andrea SkolnikI don't recall Lynette Fromme ever claiming that Manson put her up to shooting Ford. According to the bio Squeaky she did it for the redwood trees and she had removed the clip, her quote was I stood up and waved a gun (at Ford) for a reaso...n," said Fromme. "I was so relieved not to have to shoot it, but, in truth, I came to get life. Not just my life but clean air, healthy water and respect for creatures and creation.....Sara Moore was an FBI informant obsessed with Patty Hearst and she claimed that “The government had declared war on the left. Nixon's appointment of Ford as vice president and his resignation making Ford president seemed to be a continuing assault on America...sensing the pattern yet? Why is it that all these "lone nut crazies from Oswald to mind control masters Manson and Jim Jones to their followers and plain jane housewives that try and shoot presidents always seem to have a connection to the left or socialism? ...Why is it that a generally peaceful movement that campaigns for social change for everyone seems to have these odd bursts of crazy? Answer They don't .See More
March 11 at 7:49am ·
Andy Colvin Correct. It can't be coincidence that two women who loved Manson made overtures that would put Nelson in the White House. Moore, Manson, and the Laytons were all from my home town. Manson and Moore from my same street. Connections to Nazism, Germany, and Bushefellers floating around there...
March 11 at 7:57am ·
Andy ColvinOther than that note in the comments from Trout, I don't think the connection between Manson and Moore would have ever gotten to the research community had I not seen a local news spot in the early 1980s talking about their connection as ki...ds. I knew the shop owner who had been interviewed, so I asked him about it, and he reiterated that the two often came in together, holding hands. Moore is, IMHO, a mind-controlled agent. She had at least one high-profile missing time event, and disappeared for ten years, only to re-emerge just as the Mothman events began. That is why she doesn't remember how she got there with the gun.See More
March 11 at 8:19am ·
Steven Duffy This is why I was glad you came to the group Andy. If you saw the proposal, this is a like minded extension of Peter Lavenda's Sinister Forces work, amongst many others. I've invited Adam Gorightly as well, I love his Manson research, but nothing as yet. In any case, these threads are exactly what I'm looking for. And links!, lots of links if you have them. sometimes a name is recognizable...but anything that I can add to the weblinks would be a tremendous help.
March 11 at 9:42am ·
Steven Duffyabout the site
Lets just say I had a proposal for a series of intertwining books/novels, written in different styles by different authors, covering the period from 1945 to 2001.
These books would deal with the tumultuous, dangerous, and high ...weirdness of American culture and History during the height of the Cold War, the assassinations, the cover-ups, the secrecy and serial murder, the exploited and the exploiters, the showman and the madman, policy makers and king-makers, Washington Mansions to Virginian shanty's, Eastern Establishment to L.A Disestablishment. Low and lofty cults, the Haight to Bohemian Grove. From Trinity's Ground Zero to Manhattan's.
A cast of hundreds, moving through the shattered landscape of the American Dream.
This work would be called "American Shatterpoints: Secrets, Shadows, and Synchronicity."
Would it sound...interesting? The above is barely a sketch, only, but it's organized my thought's. And spelling it out makes it...real.
Best. Steve.See More
March 11 at 10:01am ·
Ted Rubinstein @Andy: you throw our refs w/o elaboration...Who is Trout? I've heard about Mothman but don't know what it refers to...and I'm aware of the link betw. Manson and Lynette Fromme but never knew there was a link to Sara Jane Moore. Please flesh these out a little...
March 11 at 1:29pm ·
Andy Colvin Trout is in the comments section of that link Andrea put up. Mothman is a creature that kept showing up in WV and OH during the 60s and 70s. Actually still being seen today. After tracking the creature's contacts, and reading Keel, I have devised a theory that it is an emanation of the collective unconscious that helps us solve crimes, using synchronicity.
March 11 at 1:37pm · · 1 personLoading...
Andy Colvin The Manson-Moore link appears to be super top-secret. No mention of it anywhere, at anytime, except for that one shop-owner who remembered them dating (or whatever). Although it was well known on my street that they had both lived there.
March 11 at 1:39pm ·
Ted Rubinstein I may not be able to view Andrea's post since she went and blocked me for no good reason...
March 11 at 1:40pm ·
Andy Colvin OK, here is the original Gorightly thing. As synchronicity would have it, I was just editing a short article I wrote that will be in my next book. It focuses on me and Gorightly at Con Con 2009. I will try and find a way to post it here.
March 11 at 1:43pm ·
Ted Rubinstein I am aware of Gorightly's book on Thornley...what have you written?
March 11 at 1:46pm ·
Andy Colvin Here's the Amazon link, my apologies for the grandiose language cooked up by Metadisc: http://www.amazon.com/Andrew-Colvin/e/B004R6HD58/ref =ntt_athr_dp_pel_pop_1
March 11 at 2:00pm ·
Andy Colvin Gorightly again: http://gorightly.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/sara-jane- moore-released-on-parole/
March 11 at 2:01pm ·
Ted Rubinstein If by any chance you've read both of the bios. re. Thornley could you contrast them? The one by Biles is prohibitively pricey...
March 11 at 2:11pm ·
Andy ColvinI recently got back from Conspiracy Con 2009 in Santa Clara, CA, where Adam Gorightly and I shared a table. The events in Santa Clara show that synchronicity can allow you to make a good dent in any mystery within a very short timeframe. In... fact, I joked with Adam early on that we could solve “the mystery of Mt. Diablo” in “a couple of hours” using nothing but ordinary synchronicity. Looking back on events, it is true that the main synchronicities (the appearance of Adam’s doppelganger, the black squirrel, and the Man in White) all happened within 1-2 hours. Whether or not they have much to do with Mt. Diablo is still an open question. But the gist of it is that there was a double of Gorightly at the convention, and we were being watched. The only reason we found out we were being watched was that I tried to take a photo of the black squirrel as it was running away.
“Con Con” was held right across the street from an enormous Virgin Mary statue. I noticed that the Yahoo corporate logo was prominent on the building behind the statue. “Yahoo” used to be the name for Bigfoot in Australia, until it was changed to “Yowie.” “Yaho” was the Native name for the supernatural creature that supposedly lived in my neighborhood in Seattle. While in the Bay Area, I discovered that the Volvon Indians, who lived on Mt. Diablo, worshipped a “condor” god – perhaps the Thunderbird. The god was named “Mol’luk,” an alternative spelling of which would be “Moloch.” Conspiracy enthusiasts are well aware that Moloch is the Hebrew owl god worshipped by elite Republicans at Bohemian Grove. Moloch is associated with human sacrifice, and such faux sacrifices are performed at the Grove. Mt. Diablo, of course, figured in the Zodiac killer’s map of killings. It is on the slopes of Diablo that the Altamont Festival was held. There, the Hell's Angels "sacrificed" a black man while “Sympathy For the Devil” played. Also on the slopes of Diablo is Orinda, CA. “Orinda” is an old Indian name that means "spirit of the Thunderbird." Orinda is one of the few places you can get a degree in parapsychology – at JFK University. JFK University is right across the street from Orinda’s Masonic lodge.
Just prior to leaving for the convention, I had been looking at some footage of the “Hughes film” of the JFK assassination. The folks at the JFK Lancer site were trying to figure out the identity of the man dressed like Lee Harvey Oswald in Dealey Plaza right after the shooting. Inexplicably, he walked towards the boxcars and quickly turned around – as if there was nothing more to see – just as everyone else was frantically looking around for the shooters. I noted that the “bald spot” on top of his head seemed unusual, as if it had been shaved to make him look more like Oswald. His movements seemed unusually controlled, or slightly disinterested, for such a tragic moment… As Adam mentioned in his blog, right before we saw the black squirrel and managed to photograph it, Adam had discovered that his dreaded doppelganger had returned. “Electronic countermeasures” expert Richard Tolces had approached Adam when he had first walked in, wanting to know if Adam “had the books.” Tolces was attempting to continue a conversation he had begun minutes before with Adam’s doppelganger! I began to ponder why Adam’s doppelganger had appeared.
Neither Adam nor I had any idea at this time that someone – a Man in White – had been watching us when we photographed the anomalous black squirrel. Since the RFK assassination came up almost immediately at the convention (due to a newly released nude photo of the purported “Girl in the Polka-Dotted Dress”) I began thinking about Oswald’s doppelgangers. Interestingly, Adam had already written a book on one of Oswald’s suspected doppelgangers, Kerry Thornley, who served with Oswald in the Marines. Thornley had a nagging suspicion that he himself was a “backup” patsy in case Oswald fell through. Thornley stated that he had been repeatedly interviewed prior to the assassination – on how to kill Kennedy – by a shadowy agent he had come to believe was E. Howard Hunt. Thornley freely admitted that he told Hunt to “frame a Communist.” Thornley even speculated that he might have been mind-controlled at some point, either by Hunt or someone employed by Hunt. Debate still rages in the conspiracy community as to whether or not the shortest of the “three tramps” arrested in Dealey Plaza was Hunt or Chauncey Holt, a document forger for the mob.
Adam and I compared images of the man in the Hughes film and Thornley. While they clearly looked alike, there were minor differences in their hairlines. However, if my initial suspicion about the Hughes man is correct, his hairline could have been altered to look more like Oswald’s. And while Thornley is thought to have been a “counterculture” figure, he was unabashed in stating publically – such as he did in his Feb. 1992 interview on A Current Affair with Sondra London – that he hated Kennedy and was glad he was killed. Thornley was, in fact, deposed at length by the Warren Commission about his relationship with Oswald. However, the questioning only seemed to focus on their time in the Marines. No one seemed too interested in where Thornley was on Nov. 22, 1963. The most damning evidence against Thornley, of course, is the fact that he wrote a book based on Oswald, The Idle Warriors, prior to the assassination. This book was the template used by the media to build their “communist” profile of Oswald. Articles about Thornley’s book came out in newspapers immediately after the shooting of Oswald. One such article, “Slain Suspect Real Loser: Wrote Book on Oswald, Orleans Resident Reveals,” came out immediately after the shooting in The New Orleans States-Item, which had the largest circulation in Louisiana.
Thornley also wrote a second book about Oswald, called Oswald. The book has a nice comment about Oswald on the cover: “I have never personally known an individual more motivated by a genuine concern for the human race than Lee Harvey Oswald.” Unfortunately, this seems to be a misdirection because, inside the book, Thornley totally rehashes the government line about the assassination. There really isn’t a lot of sympathy for Oswald. One does learn by reading it, however, that there four Oswald lookalikes in Oswald’s “Macs-9” Marines unit in 1960. It seems the assassination was being planned at least three years prior. The only question becomes whether or not Thornley was a mind-controlled patsy or willing participant in the assassination plot. One wonders why E. Howard Hunt would need to get Thornley’s thoughts on how to kill Kennedy, since Hunt would have had access to lots of other agents with more experience in such things. If the man in the Hughes film were Thornley (or another of the Oswald lookalikes from Thornley’s unit), it would explain why he turned around after getting to the boxcars: he had either received a signal from Hunt, or had – to his relief – found that Hunt and the other two “tramps” were comfortably out of sight.
As suggested by Xymphora, this same Oswald lookalike from the Hughes film was probably the one seen by Roger Craig getting into the Nash Rambler. Most likely this Rambler continued on to a meeting with Officer J.D. Tippit, who was essentially JFK’s doppelganger. They looked enough alike that Tippit’s nickname at work was “JFK.” It has been shown rather conclusively by Peter Dale Scott and others that Tippit’s body was later used in some of the faked “JFK” autopsy photos. The men in the Rambler probably killed Tippit and hid out in the abandoned church nearby. They may have been Wandering Bishops in league with David Ferrie. Wandering Bishops are fond of renting or otherwise gaining access to empty churches…
As I was pondering all of this, I did a quick search on Roger Tolces, the researcher who had seen Adam’s doppelganger. It seems that Tolces worked for Howard Hughes for a time. This second, somewhat synchronistic mention of the “Hughes” name cemented a bit more my suspicion that Kerry Thornley, or someone else from Oswald’s unit, was in Dealey Plaza. The Thornley file should be reopened. It cannot be mere coincidence that he created Oswald’s “lone nut Communist” profile just prior to the assassination. As we know, the coverup always proves the crime, and Thornley’s writings – and clandestine meetings with Hunt – helped create one of the biggest coverups we have seen. In addition, a friend of Thornley’s worked for Jim Garrison. In addition to using the office copier to print Discordian zines, they may have been feeding Thornley with information about the ensuing investigation. Not only did Thornley write the script, but he appears to have made sure that the ink, once dried, disappeared.
-Andy 6/9/09
How is it that California Indians shared a god with the ancient Hebrews and with Republican capitalists? Are the Mormons correct when they say that America was settled by Semitic races long before Columbus? There certainly seem to be a lot of Semitic place names in Ohio. Jesuit scrolls depicting Egyptian tribes in Ohio were reportedly found in the uppermost Ohio Valley, leading Joseph Smith to start Mormonism. Years ago, I had a dream that the Akashic “book of knowledge” was found under an amusement park. In April 2010, I finally got to visit Conneaut Creek in Pennsylvania, where the scrolls were reportedly found. Conneaut Creek starts in Pennsylvania but ends in Ohio, dumping into Lake Erie east of Cleveland. When I traced Conneaut Creek back to its source, I discovered that it was a place called the Fairyland Forest. The area was once part of the Erie Canal chain. Next to the Fairyland Forest is Lake Conneaut, a spring-fed body of water that also flows in the opposite direction – into French Creek and south to the Ohio River. There is an old amusement park on the north shore of Lake Conneaut, directly across the road from Fairyland Forest. Conneaut Lake Park was built during the oil boom of the late 1800s. Being a constant source of water, Lake Conneaut would have been a good place for ancient peoples – Egyptian or not – to have lived. There have been several Thunderbird sightings in the area over the years. In fact, the sightings seem to follow Conneaut Creek. The old hotel at Conneaut Lake Park is said to be haunted, leading shows like Ghosthunters and Paranormal State to record episodes there.See More
March 11 at 2:12pm ·
Ted Rubinstein save this weirdness
>----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
>From: Andy Colvin
March 11 at 2:53pm via ·
Andy Colvin Hey, you're the one with the Owl Face profile pic, not me.
March 11 at 2:57pm · · 1 personLoading...
Ted Rubinstein Don't start...(I forgot about the FB trace that is left when I save a post, that was supposed to be "eyes only" as it were) But I would like to know where PDS suggested Tippit's body was used for JFK autopsy photos...
March 11 at 3:00pm ·
Andy Colvin I think it was Deep Politics 2, which is very hard to find. If you don't want me to start, then don't start ; - )=
March 11 at 3:01pm · · 1 personLoading...
Ted Rubinstein I don't do human sacrifices, I don't worship Moloch, I don't know anyone who attends Bohemian Grove, etc etc.
March 11 at 3:01pm ·
Andy Colvin None of us assassinate people, either, but here we are studying it.
March 11 at 3:03pm · · 1 personLoading...
Ted Rubinstein I read DP 1, I think DP 2 concerns Oswald and MC; could it have been DP3?
March 11 at 3:03pm ·
Andy Colvin Maybe it was Morningstar. If so, I apologize. Whichever, there is no disputing that Tippit was substituted.
March 11 at 3:04pm ·
Ted Rubinstein No difference betw. PDS and Morningstar...:D Peter would be appalled but I forgive you...
March 11 at 3:05pm ·
Andy Colvin PDS got way into the E. Hunt vs. Holt thing in DP2. Not much different. Once you see the autopsy photos in question, you won't dispute it. Clearly Tippit. Can't see why the agency would cook up a "Tippit was substituted" line, either.
March 11 at 3:08pm ·
Andy Colvin Maybe PDS was embarrassed by all of the photo comparisons he did in DP2, and that is why it is so hard to find. Or maybe it was so damning and convincing that he was scared of the blowback. He is a prof. after all...
March 11 at 3:10pm ·
Ted Rubinstein I'm not aware that PDS wrote about either Hunt vs. Holt or the medical evidence. Morningstar is not considered very highly in critical circles and I am hardly the only one to dispute this...what does the Agency have to do w/this particular dispute? What is the significance of the black squirrel? And is the LHO doppelganger in Dealey Plaza Lovelady? He had a bald spot...
March 11 at 3:22pm ·
Ted Rubinstein The more you post the more disconcerted I'm becoming which I wish were not the case...
March 11 at 3:24pm ·
Andy Colvin Aw, we were just starting to make up... I mention the agency because I see no reason why anyone would falsify the fact that Tippit was substituted. Your disconcertion may be because you are not familiar with all the material. Plz don't blame that on me. I am just the messenger...
March 11 at 3:27pm ·
Andy Colvin I actually think DP2 was changed. The first edition was spiral-bound with several photos of Hunt or Holt. Now it has a bunch of articles about Oswald in Mexico. We should ask PDS about this.
March 11 at 3:30pm ·
Ted Rubinstein Maybe you'll have to excuse me because I've only been studying it for 35 years and Peter was my mentor so to speak at Berkeley. I see there were 2 editions; maybe I'll send him an inquiry on FB...
March 11 at 3:31pm ·
Andy Colvin That makes us even, although I did not go to Berkeley. Would love to know why the change in editions. I remember being blown away by No.1 at the time. Where did you find the reference to both editions?
March 11 at 3:33pm ·
Ted Rubinstein Why anyone would falsify the fact that Tippit was substituted? I'm not sure what you mean...Maybe it's not a fact...Maybe (God forbid) Morningstar is just wrong...Ref to the 2 editions is on Amazon...
March 11 at 3:34pm ·
Andy Colvin That's my point. Since no one would seem to have any motive for falsifying the fact that they are amongst the autopsy photos of JFK, then the only reason they would be there is because Tippit needed to be killed for that reason.
March 11 at 3:37pm ·
Ted Rubinstein Hold on...You're telling me in all seriousness that is why T. was murdered? You've now done Philip Nelson one better who said it was unrelated to the assassination, probably a marital dispute...
March 11 at 3:40pm ·
Andy Colvin Either the Tippit photos were placed in amongst the JFK photos or they were not. Seems possible, given all the other shit they did.
March 11 at 3:49pm ·
Andy Colvin Obviously I am not afraid of peer review, which is why my stuff is out there. If you want to get into the ins and outs of why peer review is politicized and therefore somewhat unreliable, perhaps we can get into that another day. I spent several years in academia and know that game.
March 11 at 3:53pm ·
Andy Colvin After that other letter in my next book, there is this letter. Perhaps Tippit was killed because his best friend was helping to set up Oswald at the Texas Theater. Perhaps Tippit "knew too much." ----------------------
March 11 at 4:01pm ·
Ted Rubinstein Who was his best friend? And you seem now to have backed off to the "possibility" of this occurrence which is at least a move in the right direction...
March 11 at 4:04pm ·
Andy Colvin Carl Mather. I keep trying to post the letter but it keeps kicking out... But please do tell what your criteria is for deciding when something is in the "wrong direction" in the most labyrinthian case in history, where every single crisscross and cover has been used. Why is it so crazy that Tippit might have been substituted? Do you believe in humanity that much?
March 11 at 4:08pm ·
Andy ColvinI believe [we] have solved the mystery of Dallas Police documents referring to Oswald's arrest “in the balcony” of the Texas Theater. Bernard Haire, who owned Bernies Hobbie Shop close to the theater, saw the Dallas Police take a white male..., approximately 25 years of age, dark hair, wearing a pullover shirt and dark pants, out the rear of the theater, place him in a police car, and drive off. Concession stand operator W.H. “Butch” Burroughs stated that “Oswald” entered the theater shortly after 1:00 p.m., but that “someone [else] slipped into the theatre at 1:35.”
After Oswald had already been arrested and was in custody at Dallas Police Headquarters (shortly after 2:00 p.m.), Mr. T.F. White saw a man he later identified as Lee Harvey Oswald sitting in a car, with the engine running, behind a large billboard sign in the El Chico parking lot. This was six blocks from the Texas Theater. As White approached the car, the man sped off, throwing gravel with his rear tires. The license plates, whose number White wrote down, belonged to a vehicle owned by Collins Radio employee Carl Mather. Mather was the best friend of Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit. Mather, unknown to the Warren Commission, was granted immunity and interviewed by the HSCA. His interview remains classified.
-Robert Howard 6/09See More
March 11 at 4:08pm · · 1 personLoading...
Ted Rubinstein OK I know about Mather...My problem is with theories put forward by not very credible people (and I'm referring to Morningstar not you here however I wish I could be sure). So I will ask if you've seen this in any credible books?
March 11 at 4:15pm ·
Andy Colvin Like the Warren Commission? I mean, what do you consider credible? Do you think the testimonies in that last letter may be invalid because the author hasn't been certified by academia? I would argue that academia is part of the problem. Several folks at my school, the Univ. of TX, were probably involved in the assassination, in fact.
March 11 at 4:19pm ·
Andy Colvin And regarding Tippit, do you have a problem with the photos or with someone whose name is Morningstar, a "weird" name?
March 11 at 4:21pm ·
Ted Rubinstein What does his name have to do w/ anything? And why would you refer to the WR? I'm talking about literature by responsible critics of the latter...
March 11 at 4:23pm ·
Ted Rubinstein My main problem (which I have with so many) is the conflation of theories with facts...which is why I was relieved you changed up a little on it...
March 11 at 4:27pm ·
Andy ColvinJust trying to get a sense of what you think is credible. You were pretty quick to think certain things were "weird." The conflation you speak of sometimes occurs more in the listener than in the speaker. They hear the speaker discuss somet...hing the speaker feels is a theory, but the limitations of the English language make it seem like the speaker thinks it is fact. Especially when there are no real vocals to go along with it... Hopefully, as a society, we are getting better at writing, due to all of our obsessive time on the Internets.See More
March 11 at 4:33pm ·
Andy Colvin Well, sure, but maybe they are trying to make it take 75 years to figure things out.
March 11 at 4:35pm ·
Ted Rubinstein I think a lot of this synchronicity stuff is weird. I think the black squirrel is weird, and so on like that...
March 11 at 4:36pm ·
Ted Rubinstein I wish also that we'd get some other input, like from Steve, David, somebody...
March 11 at 4:39pm ·
Andy Colvin They tend to come on in the wee hours. This will give him something to chew. As for me, I need to call it a night. Nice debate!
March 11 at 4:42pm ·
Steven Duffywell, no I was getting serious email overflow...glad everyone played nice. I'm writing...so was of for awhile. About this thread...yes, this is the whole reason for the page. Along with Lavenda, Andy and Adam, plus earlier authors such as K...eel and Keyhoe and Wilson etc are the very inspiration....This page is to explore those weird connections...some, however, such as the Morningstar theory, I would not necessarily touch upon if I was writing only a JFK assassination page..as I would consider it fringe...here, it ties some things together, and I always have a chance to fictionalize certain ideas...funny, that arguments of Morningstar's Tippet's body switch was what led to me be considered a "troublemaker" by some several weeks back.... It's something I really should ask Morningstar about directly...I don't buy his theory, for several reasons...but....having said that, I wouldn't turn away those beliefs HERE...because this is were those articles belong (and something I posted a week ago, for the "scholarly" assassination buffs to be aware of)..that I would be touching on ALL these areas. Some things which some may see as outrageous, I'm asking to see. 'Tis a strange world......BTW.., Andy quoted a researcher called Robert Howard....who posts very good, very in depth articles at the Ed forum..I personally thanked him for his contributions..i don't think he gets the credit he deserves...so please, continue, whether i respond straight away or not. These ideas are what keeps this page live...See More
March 11 at 5:19pm ·
Steven Duffy And good to see you have a new book, too...Andy. Hope you can see what i'm trying to achiefve here..
March 11 at 5:21pm ·
Ted Rubinstein I finally found this thread again; didn't realize there were 2 Shatterpoint pages...@Alvin: I found someone who agrees w/ you about the Tippit body substitution...Joan D'Arc formerly of Paranoia Magazine now "retired" from the conspiracy biz or so she says...She uses Tippit as her profile pic on this venue and told me that's the reason...Maybe I'll have the same debate w/ her that I had w/ you :D
March 17 at 2:52pm ·
Andy Colvin Good luck with debating Joan. She's tenacious. I'm hoping to have her on my monthly show on Think or Be Eaten this year. http://thinkorbeeaten.com/theknoll/radio.html
March 17 at 3:43pm · · 2 peopleLoading...
Ted Rubinstein So you know of her...I like the title. Is it new? Like I need another radio show to eat up more of my time :) :(
March 17 at 4:28pm ·
Andy Colvin I've been doing shows on there for a few years. The show used to be called The Grassy Knoll. Keith usually has some old shows up for perusal, as well as the current year. The overall site I think is still called The Knoll, I think. Here is a link to the zine. I have an article in there with a lot of "weird" shit in it that will probably send you over the edge. LOL http://www.thinkorbeeaten.com/ITGK6/index.html
March 17 at 4:41pm ·
Andy Colvin I notice that they tend to mix the "no planes" thing with the idea that we invaded the Middle East for oil. So, one can see that it might really be an effort to discredit the oil thesis.
March 17 at 5:02pm ·
Andy Colvin Joan edits Paranoia magazine, btw. For a few years, there wasn't much else out there covering fringe conspiracy. Gotta give her kudos for that...
March 17 at 5:03pm · · 1 personLoading...
Ted Rubinstein Partly for opium :D...I'll have to check out the zine more carefully. Have you read Lavenda's trilogy?
March 17 at 5:04pm ·
Andy Colvin Yes, I have read the trilogy. I found it odd that he kept trying to place Manson in Ashland, KY, when Manson spent more time in Charleston, WV. A friend of our family, "old lady Fisher," was his guardian after his mom was put in jail. Perhaps he didn't want the Manson-Moore connection to come out? Keith at Grassy Knoll thinks Levenda is like Alex Jones in that neither wants to implicate the Jesuits.
March 17 at 5:07pm ·
Ted Rubinstein Pamela Ray and my longtime friend Paul Currier are big on the Jesuit conspiracy. That's not one of the things I criticize Alex for. This guy Phelps I guess is the grand pooh-bah of the Vatican Assassins theme--he with the $400 books...
March 17 at 5:15pm ·
Andy Colvin I knew Alex back when he was an unknown on local cable TV. He's got his problems, but he did a good job of keeping conspiracy people in Austin informed. Now, I don't know what to think. He's pissed off a lot of people, so... Phelps was on Grassy Knoll a few times, but it fizzled out for some reason. Probably because Keith is more of a grassroots type of guy.
March 17 at 5:21pm ·
Andrea Skolnik Hey, you're the one with the Owl Face profile pic, not me....many on Facebook in the 'research" or "truther" game use that giant owl profile pic. That or the lonely wolf. Surprising that when you search their other posts online the synchronicity you find.
March 17 at 5:32pm · · 1 personLoading...
Andrea Skolnik Andy when you refer to Fairyland Forest do you mean the old Storybook Forest? I went there every year as a kid. Also when was the last known sighting of Mothman?
March 17 at 9:04pm ·
Andrea Skolnik and another thing Andy I found the blog to go with your radio podcast but I can not find an archive listing for old shows do you have a link by chance?
March 17 at 9:11pm ·
Andy Colvin GK doesn't leave the old ones up anymore. He is working on putting together collections of various popular guests. He does post a different set of old shows each month, however. They look pretty good this month:http://thinkorbeeaten.com/theknoll/classic.html
March 18 at 5:58am ·
Andrea Skolnik Thanks I like to catch up on old podcasts when I find new ones I like especially dealing with these topics.
March 18 at 7:17am ·
Andy Colvin That no. 11 with me deals with some of the topics brought up here. No. 12 probably does as well... Those are transcribed and upgraded in the Mothman's Photographer II book. That's the one to start with.
March 18 at 7:20am ·
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